Baksheesh

byron

Hi everyone,

sorry so be so full of questions, but there is another area I was wondering whether you guys could shed some light on. The Rough Guide is noticeably quite reticent on drawing a line between baksheesh and bribery - it condones the former but, of course, condemns the latter. I'm not quite sure I'd be confident in drawing a line, however. For instance, the Guide talks about 'bending the rules' - possibly asking train guards to find you a seat in a 'full' train. Is this normally a situation in which people grease the wheels by offering baksheesh? I would have assumed that such behaviour might be deemed as offensive to some guards. What is baksheesh and what is bribery?

Secondly, while I don't intend to go spraying money around the streets, I do think that I will probably give out small change occasionally to those who might need it. Is it easy to tell which beggars are truly needy and which are, for instance, employed by someone else? Who should I give to?

Any help greatly appreciated

Byron

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cyberbaba

"What is baksheesh and what is bribery?"

Baksheesh feels good because someone has truely helped you.
Bribery feels awkward. Kind of like ... well... imagine a kind of strange slow dance that happens under the mid-day sun with a greasy mustache.

"Is it easy to tell which beggars are truly needy and which are, for instance, employed by someone else? Who should I give to?"

It's not easy to tell. You would have to spend time with them to understand their "situation". Give when it feels good for both of you. I like using fruit as an exchange medium. It adds a certain kind of humor.

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Vespar

I also like to give out fruit but it is not always accepted. We had one beggar throw it back at us.

However the other thing that I do to help me cope is to take with me blankets, books pens tooth brushes and anything else that may be handy. When I arrive in Delhi I then hand the goods over to a charity or school that I have researched to make sure they are reputable. Then as I travel around I actually purchase goods such as pens and exercise books, food ect and deliver then at schools, hospitals or other charities. The advance is this that not only are you helping the poor but also you are supporting the local economy.

machadinha

I have written this before but what I observed is those Indians who are inclined to give keep some small change on them and pass out a couple of coins to various people (the beginning of) each day. It's a system that seems to work if enough people do it. If the recipient is deserving or not, who's to say.

If you want to join in, be sure to have some handy pockets ready to keep that small change in for nonchalant extraction. If the beggars curse you for more, maybe they've had a rough day.

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Nick-H

As a visitor I don't think you are really going to encounter the world of bribery in India, the area of nothing gets done until the money is given. Once you start having to deal with officials, government offices, etc, all that changes and you will regularly encounter it .

It is something that I find very awkward indeed. To me there is the English reticence and embarrasment about money, and also the fear that this is illegal and maybe both briber and bribee could get into trouble. To my wife it is part of life just as is her language and it is one of the many, many things that I have come to rely on her for.

To add to the confusion, there are scrupulously honest government officers. The lady registrar who married us refused to accept even a box of sweets, saying she would take one sweet only. Her clerk was less so, and even Mrs N was surprised at how this person managed to make it known that she wanted Rs100 (the amounts are not necessarily huge) and to accept it, in a crowded office, with no-one seeing.

<got more to say on this, but suddenly have to go out ---- to a situation where a little 'lubrication may be needed!>

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Rich Anpoor

In some of the big holy places there are coin-wallahs who will change you a 10 rupee note and give you 9 rupees in coins back so you can have change to give to beggars. look for them sitting on the floor with little stacks of coins (1Rs & 50 paisa coins)

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New-South-Welshman

I always give baksheesh to waiters, but I was at this restaurant which tried to be upscale, and we payed our bill waiting for the chnage to return so we can tip them even more, but they never returned with the 35 rupees so I'm like, "That's just rude!". Sometimes you don't know why you bother. With bribes, I wouldn't mind giving one, if I'm in trouble or want something, but if they demand it I will only say I've got a small amount.

Nick-H

Giving Rs9 for a Rs10 note is just a scam! Don't put up with such behaviour at all ever.

The big difference between tipping and bribing is that bribing is illegal! This is corruption we are talking about. It bears no resemblance to giving Rs5 to a waiter, or even Rs100 to a TTE for finding you a different berth, or an upgrade (even if it is expected).

Somebody once commented on the Indian bribery situation that, in many countries in the world you have to give bribes to get away with something, or to do something you should not be allowed: In India you have to give money to get that to which you are entitled anyway. This is very hard on poor people getting their children into school for instance, although it is just an extra expense for someone getting a passport (they can afford foreign travel anyway!). So it is a real burden to those who do not have money, and this is why it cannot be described as a victim-less crime.

An Indian government official is not well paid (he has job security and a pension). I was asking Mrs N about the registrar (we just registered our new house). This guy, who is a responsible official, in charge of an office full of people is probably getting only Rs10 to 15 thousand a month. But he will be getting several thousand for every house registration (...marriage, etc etc etc) that he does. We think he could be getting as much as 1,00,000 a month in bribes! which, if true, makes him a rich man. The poor above-board registrar who married us is getting nothing. Quite a difference in income!

cyberhippie

No it's not a scam Nick it's a perfectly legitimate way of making money IMHO!!
Anyone who manages to find that much change, deserves his little profit of 1 rupee.

Why do think it's a scam, perhaps I'm missing something!

cyberhippie

Hmm a friend's uncle works for customs and excise on the Goa Karnataka border he recently built a house worth about 40 lakh

machadinha

I think I agree with Cyberhippie here, it's a matter of where there's a market i.e. a demand; these people don't line the streets just anywhere. I've never seen it but have read funny stories about the semi-submerged what's-his-name's tomb in Mumbai (entrance way is only accessible at low tide I believe). Apparently a whole scene develops each time with beggars lining the way in & the accompanying change-changers forming a parallel row of handymen on the spot. I suppose the pilgrims feel it ups their karma or something, hey if there were no poor people who would we feel good about for our generosity.

*I just realized that the full story was that apparently the same handymen change all the small change back to rupee bills for the beggars at the end of the affair. Micro-economy anyone? OK agreed, sounds a bit scammish.

Loisb

Baksheesh is a 'tip' for a genuine service offered. Although my trip to India this year will be my first, I've been to Egypt and Morocco the last two years and have picked up a thing or two. I speak as one who earns a minimal wage here and does not like the attitude the all tourists are 'rich'. I do not give to those who have not deserved.

In Egypt everybody expects a tip from any tourist for a service offered - not even necessarily taken. This applied to the guide who had given me an insightful day or the guy who showed me to the wrong seat on an overnight sleeper train. Sometimes you don't even find out that you have been given a bum steer until later!

What is important is that you give something that is relavant to the service offered. If the meeting has been brief they will be very happy with what, to most of us, is a miniscule amount, a penny or two and if the relationship has been a longer one probably still a lesser amount then you would tip a waiter after a meal here in the west.

If someone has given you a genuinely good friendly service and your experience has been made easier by it, give a little. You may find that rewards come from it. Do not give to those who seem to expect it for very little. We are not, after all, an endless money pit!

Loisb

Oops, forgot to mention that a tot from that bottle of whisky (or whatever) that you got duty free to anyone you do an overnight with (even in a devoutly Muslim country!) works wonders too!

Nick-H

Anyone who doesn't think this 9Rs for 10 thing is not a scam is welcome to send me a Rs1,000, plus postage, and I'll send them back 900. Or lets make it UK pounds, and we can do it by bank transfer with my London account, so as to avoid any Indian currency import/export restrictions! Yeh! I'm looking forward to making a good living out of this one!!

The individual amount lost, Rs1, may sound small, but it still sounds like a parasitical, blood-sucking scam to me. Heck: just give the guy a rupee, why not?

You want change? buy a newspaper, a cup of chai, or any other low-price item. You'll soon end up with a pocketful of change: it is not hard to come by! Or just pay in shops with Rs100 notes to collect 10s and change.

I understand that there was a time when there was a coin shortage some years ago. That is no longer the case, and don't let any unscrupulous trader try to tell you that is! If you hear the words, "No change, Sir...", just tell them to go out and get some --- or round the price down and not up .

cyberhippie... I understand that there is a massive demand for jobs in customs. And any lucrative post, eg in customs or police, won't be given for free either --- there will be bribery either of senior officials or (possible and) influential politicians etc to bring pressure to bear for one's success. It may well cost a successful applicant hundreds of thousands of rupees to get their cash-cow posting!

There is a government anti-corruption website (sorry, I forget where). It carries a list of government officals under investigation --- a very high proportion are customs officers! (this was true as of a year or two ago...)

capt_mahajan

This is the Central Vigilance Commission site:
http://www.cvc.nic.in/

as far as lucrative posts go.. the 'going rate' for theses is directly related to the money which can be made there.

Day to day corruption is decreasing, though. Specially if you leave aside property dealings. Can't remember when I last paid a bribe... many years ago, I think.

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