1st trip 2 india-need advice on stuff

soma1972

Hi all,

My girlfriend and myself are flying out to india for the first time on 6-dec for a 5 week trip and i could do with a bit of advice on the flexible tour i've sort of planned-(written on the back on an envelope actually)!. Please feel free to criticise or amend travel options as i'm open to all advice.

Dec-7 arrive Mumbai-stay a couple of nights at the YMCA hostel to get acclimitised

Dec-9-fly or get train to Delhi then plan trips to Taj-Mahal/Jaipur/Agra

Dec 13-travel by train from Delhi to Calcutta

Dec 16-travel by train to Bangalore

Dec 18-arrange travel down to Kerala (advice needed on places to go in Kerala)

Dec 22-travel by train/bus to Goa, find cheap accomodation and chill for remainder of stay

Jan 10-travel by train to Bombay and fly back on Jan 13.

My plan was based on 30 minutes staring at a map of india and is open to all criticism and ridicule as long as you also give advice (and cheek if you really want to).

Is it best to book accomodation and trains beforehand or could i rely on the Footprint guidebooks to India & Goa, I plan to take Lifesystem mosquito nets and silk sleeping bag liners, expensive but worth every penny, so i would prefer to use budget accomodation preferebly under £10 per night and could someone explain to me the different classes of travel on trains, i've looked at the indiarail website but i'm still none the wiser about the most economical way to travel in relative comfort.

One last query-are the police in Goa really as corrupt/badasses as i've heard about-ie smoking wise?.

Many thanks-I've forgot loads of what i was going to ask, so expect a few cry's for help before we set off.

Kenny

Wombat7

India is a difficult place to provide advice on - especially for a first time traveller. For me India is one of the most stressful, infuriating, fascinating places I have been to. People react to it differently - indeed I react to it differently from day to day in my trip. Having voiced my caveats, a few observations on your plan.


You are spending a lot of your early time in cities - Mumbai, Delhi, Calacutta and Bangalore - I haven't been to the latter - but the first three are fine for passing through, making travel arrangement etc but I prefer to get out of thhe cities.

Have a look at the south east coast, south of Madras - places like Mahabalipuram.

3 weeks of chilling out on Goa would be too long for me

Hvae fun

-m2-

A few observations and opinions.

1. Too much train travel for short trip -- unless you have some serious need to visit Calcutta, I'd say skip it. Mumbai-Delhi by train -- fine, but why not go via Rajastan as you could visit, for example, Udaipur, Pushkar, and Jaipur, Ranthambor National Park and continue on to the very interesting bird sanctuary at Bharatpur. From Bharatpur, you are a short distance from Agra and the Taj Mahal and would not really even have to spend the night there before continuing on to Delhi.

2. Train classes: SL = sleeper class 3 level bunk beds (the top bunk is available for relaxing during the day on longer than overnight trips). by far the least expensive, but can be crowded as many without reservations will be milling around trying to find a place to perch. Toilets can get pretty discusting too, but this class is the usual for budget travellers.
3ac and 2ac -- air con sleeping cars with 3 tier and 2 tier bunks, respectively. Newer, more comfortable cars with much better washroom facilities, and secured at night. The a/c really not necessary in the winter, but the other factors might justify the much higher price. My personal preference is 3ac as the extra comfort of the 2ac comes at a much higher price than it's worth to me.
1st class -- getting a bit pricey, but probably very nice.
CC - a/c chair cars -- available on some day trains -- haven't tried, but was told not that comfortable. Long day trips best with a 3ac upper berth, in my opinion, so you can either sit or stretch out during the trip. Although there is some talk about reservations being available on line, my perusal of the site indicates this is really for people in India rather than booking from abroad. I might be wrong, and this might change by fall.

3. Mosquito nets. While prevention of bites is the best anti-malarial advice, I personally don't feel it is worth-while bringing a net from home. First, you will be travelling in the winter when mosquitoes not much of a problem, and secondly, if they are a problem in some place, probably the hotel will have nets available -- or at least, you will be able to buy a local one for very few rupees. As always, wear long loose pants and l/s shirt in the evening, and use a coil and/or some of the locally available repellent. (Odomos works fine)
Silk sheets? well, why not -- they don't weigh much or take up space.

4. Goa. I'm a real Goa fan and spend most of the winter there, though my experience is mainly in North Goa these days and Arambol in particular. You will have trouble finding 'cheap' accommodations if you arrive on the 22 of December. Travellers, and vacationers start migrating to Goa from all over India (and the world, I guess) to be around for Xmas/New Years and things get very tight beginning a week or two before Xmas. Better to arrive before the 15th. And yes the police really are as corrupt and bad-assed as you have heard but this should not prevent you from having am enjoyable stay -- discretion, learning the ropes, etc.

5. Lots to see/do in the south -- not sure if you have special reason to single out Bangalore, but it's really just another crowded city. If you are into nature, there are some pretty nice parks, good beaches, temples, backwater trips etc. You'll have lots of time to check out the guide books, get some ideas, and check back here as there are lots of knowledgeable members who will no doubt be happy to pass on some ideas and experiences.

cheers,

soma1972

Cheers m2, will take your advice into account when we finalise our travel details-only another 109 days till we arrive in mumbai so plenty of time to get sorted-hopefully....

Our idea with the big train trip was to see as much of the country as possible with a couple of nights in each of the main city's, whether we go along with this plan is anyone's guess.

I've investigated the train service a bit more and found that a 15 day indrail pass will cost approx £125 each for a 2 berth 2 tier ac carriage which we can book from this country and reserve our places plus all meals and bedding is included, I thought we could travel late in the afternoon-sleep at night-wake up to breakfast brought to us and arrive at our next destination for a couple of days then jump on the train again to our next stop, This way we would be saving money on accomodation and there is the use of tourist sleeping rooms at train stations if we need the use of them.

What do you think?? are we asking a bit much to try and pull this off smoothly on our first visit??-I've traveled round Mozambique-Botswana-Zambia-Zimbabwe and all of S-Africa doing the same sort of thing and understand about third world timekeeping (or lack of it Ha-Ha) so delays/ hold ups and stress doesn't really bother me, I'll just be thankfull to be as far away from Scotland in the winter as possible.

Keep the advice coming in folks, its much appreciated.

Kenny

Avinash S

Kenny,

A few observations/comments..

3 A/C by train is comfortable and "value for money" - 2 A/C is not. but if you think the price differential is not a problem.. go for 2A/C. 1st class AC is as almost as expensive as a flight - not worth it.. The downside with the A/c compartments is that some of the window glasses are "tinted" and you do not get a clear view of the outside..

A certain class of trains called the Rajadhani & Shatabdi trains are completely airconditioned and are more pricey.. But they are more (more is a relative term !) punctual than the others, have higher speeds, better on-board service and price of food is included in the ticket cost.

If you're the backpacker category - Sleeper class is fine.. But, do not rely on the sleeper class waiting rooms at railway stations - they are not maintained well..

The South of India (closer towards Madras) has a lot of temples etc.. There isn't an awful lot to do in the cities.. depends on what you are looking for in India.. If you just need a taste of India.. one city may be good enough.. Bombay is extremely crowded ; Delhi is more spaced out and has some historical sights ; I haven't done Calcutta myself - so cannot comment

Though, I'd agree with -m2-. May be you could skip Calcutta and travel to Delhi via Rajasthan from Bombay (Mumbai) - spend more time there - Udaipur, Jaipur, Jaisalmer - there are some lovely forts & palaces in Rajasthan.

You should plan a night at Agra because apart from the Taj Mahal, there is the Agra Fort, Fatehpur Sikri (a fort) - recommended. If you're into religion, there is Vrindavan & Mathura close to Agra (about an hours drive I would think) - lots of temples in Vrindavan / Mathura.

In Kerala, a "Kettuvalam" ride is definitely recommened - it is basically an old rice boat which is converted into a rooms - you have a boat all for yourself or share it depending on the price you pay - you travel from once place to another along the river / back waters on the boat and spend the night on it.. You stop at quaint little villages where you buy fish etc. There is a cook onboard - the pricier "kettuvalams" have air-conditioning etc.. There are a lot of these boat rides from Alleppey & Cochin. You could probably get more details on the net..

Trivandrum & Cochin are the main cities to reach Kerala.. A train ride from Cochin to Bombay is recommended as it takes you along the western ghats of India - I've not done it myself but I am told it is a very scenic and beautiful.

The North of India will be cold during the winters in Dec - night temp will be 4 C approx. ; the south will be warmer ~15 C.

Advances reservation especialy around Christmas is definitely recommended.. It is the winter holidays for Kids - so a lot of people would be travelling..

Have a good trip..

Cheers

afc1

My thoughts are:

Far too much travelling, all crammed into a short period to allow for a long stop in GOA.

Overnight travelling is very tiring, you don't sleep properly or cleanly. If unavoidable, ok, but do not depend on it.

If you want to see all these places, strectch out the time, and forget Goa, it's full of travellers.

Best to cut right back on distance, and go and see the top class sights, (Agra, Varanasi, etc.)

Calcutta is worth seeing, but if so, limit trip to Bengal.

In 2ac, Indrail pas does not include meals.

First class non ac is jolly good value if you can find it.

Enjoy.

Alan D

Kenny

Like some of the previous posters I think you are probably trying to cover too much ground. Have you worked out how much time you are going to spend travelling? Your plan is possible but you will spend a lot of time looking at the Indian countryside from a train window.

Unless you really like large crowded cities I would drop out Calcuttta and Bangalore and concentrate on seeing some of Rajasthan (Udaipur, Jaipur, Jodhpur --forts and palaces) and the Agra area (Taj Mahal, Agra Fort, and Fatepur Sikri and perhaps a visit to the Bird sanctuary at Bharatpur).

Then you could take a train south from Delhi and explore Kerala--a day trip on the backwaters from Alleppy, a few days at Fort Cochin and perhaps a visit to Kodaikanal to get the feel of an Indian hill station.

Your budget of £10 per night should get you a reasonable room with attached bathroom. I would take the Lifesystems mosquito net (that's what we use) it only weighs a few ounces and you would need it at Bharatpur and in the South.

3AC class is ok to travel in (pity about the windows) and you should work out whether your total cost of travel makes it worth buying an Indrail pass or not. Meals on Indian trains are pretty cheap and adequate though not much variety.

Don't know much about Goa as we have only spent a few days there.

Anyway, you have some time left to finalise your plans. As others have said if you need more info post again.

Good travelling

-m2-

Hi again Kenny,

Ahh, your last post explains the extreme 'front-loading' of the travel part of your trip -- maximizing the utility of an Indrail Pass. Well, your African travels will have prepared you somewhat for such a trip and you would be making plans with your eyes open anyway. From rough calculations of a more modest trip, the pass appears to be a 'good deal' financially only if you do the extreme version you envision.

Not meaning to plan your trip for you, but doing a bit of checking on fares, (which are based on milage, type of train, and class of accomodation), I've used the full distance fares only to get the general cost of transport. If you did the first and third legs in stages, or using busses where needed, etc. the rough overall costs wouldn't be off by too much. For the hell of it, I've assumed you took the Delhi-Trivandrum leg direct on a Rajdani express (satisfying your interest in a mega-ride, and enabling you to meander northward from South India to Goa at your leisure). Finishing up in Goa (arriving shortly after New Years would be perfect), then continuing up to Mumbai to arrive the day of your flight home.

Mumbai-Delhi 2ac 1853 3ac 1178 (Express)
Delhi-Trivandrum 2ac 4315 3ac 2825 (Rajdani Exp)
Trivandrum-Mumb 2ac 2033 3ac 1290 (Express)

total (rupee) 8201 5293

total (Sterling @74) 110 71.50

The pass probably eases the problem of bookings somewhat as I believe there are special quotas apart from the usual tourist quotas, but still, to 'get your money's worth' you really have to compress your travels into a kind of unrealistic schedule that I don't think would be a lot of fun for most people.

Anyway, lots of time left to think things over and it's nice to see some more people chipping in with ideas.

cheers,

mike

soma1972

Cheers all,
I think i'll take your advice and skip out the delhi-calcutta part of the trip coz i've heard good reports about kerala and i'd like to spend at least a week down there, just cruising about on an enfield bullet and staying wherever we end up at in the evening - Is it possible to get insurance for the bike when i hire it coz i've heard that the police are pretty hard on you (Baksheesh wise) if your documents are not up to scratch-I've got an International Driving Licence so at least they cannot get me for that!!-hopefully.

Is it feasible for the two of us to expect accomodation for under £10 per night when we're travelling or should we pay a bit extra seeing as we're India virgins, to get a few comforts as everyone seems to get totally overwhelmed when they arrive for the first time?.
I hitched + used trains to cover most of lower africa a few years ago so i quite enjoy a bit of uncertainty regarding travel - gets the adrenaline flowing especially when you get turned over by the very people that stop to offer you a lift - gun toting bandits, don't ya just luv-em.....Not!!!.

Is there any must see/must do things in Mumbai / Delhi / Mysore / Cochin / Goa or anywhere else that's recommended, (i apologise for sounding like a package tourist but we're treating this trip like a holiday and to help us plan for an extended trip next year) we would love to go way up north with our tent and gear but that'll have to keep for next time after some extensive planning + saving.

One thing that i must do is get my fortune read by the scrolls, there was a book i picked up about a year ago that explained all about the different methods of fortune reading / astrology in india and this facinated me and actually prompted me to get off my arse to organise and save for this trip so you could say it's some sort of sign that it's meant to be (Oooo!!-getting a bit trippy hippy there ) , has anyone any advice on this or how i could get a reputable reading rather than the usual tourist trash - i would be very gratefull!!.


Only another 108 days to go before we set foot on indian soil-I want to be there NOW!!.

namaste (picking up the lingo allready-ha ha)

Kenny

Ps: just discoverd all the other forums on this site -WoW!!- shitloads of good info to trawl through.

IainC

Congratulations on choosing India! I have been six times now and it is infuriating but addictive, and I love (and at times, hate) the place. My one main comment is the amount of time spent on trains, your planning a lot. How about sticking to one main area and really enjoying it instead of whizzing around. If you like it, you can always go back and see somewhere else. Five weeks is a good length of time for your first trip, have a nice one.