songs in indian films

sadhuji · Mar 2nd, 2006, 17:16

I wonder if anyone has ever bothered to carry out a research on how the idea of songs in Indian films came about. I am making a small beginning and putting forth my views. I expect the more knowledgeable to add to my views so that this can become a comprehensive document for future reference.

In my honest opinion, film songs are a legacy we have carried forward from the days of village performances by traveling groups who used the medium of songs to spread their message. Mostly, these would be verses recited from the Ramayana or the Mahabharata. The songs composed around characters of these epics would be lapped up by the illiterate village folks, especially the women and children. The songs were an alternative to the written word because the audience could not read or write. The songs, along with the performances, brought to the forefront the good and bad characters and each member of the audience formed his or her opinions of what was good and what was bad. The songs, therefore, were a strong and reliable means of communication. The trend continued in the films of the black and white era where these were used to tell a story – like the song ‘aao bachhe dikhaye tumhe jhanki hindustan ki’ (‘come children, let me show you glimpses of Hindustan’) during the train journey in the film Jagriti where the teacher sings the song created around the important places of historical importance. Other film songs were heard via the radio or the gramophone or an indirect media like the boatman singing to dispel his loneliness on the river – and reflected the mood of the hero or the heroine.

Songs in English movies served specific purposes – like the Sound of Music or Can-Can which were basically musicals. Songs in Westerns were usually chorus songs sung around the camp fires and appeared natural under the circumstances.

Unfortunately, what passes off for film music in the present Indian scenario appears to be a directionless madness put together by a group of persons whose sincerity lies in minting millions of rupees in the shortest possible time rather than winning millions of hearts. Sad to say, Indian film songs have little or no relevance to the basic storyline.

sezegnin · Mar 2nd, 2006, 20:21

Hindi films have trite, cliched or nonexistent story lines, badly done costumes, ridiculous props, makeup that would mortify an off-off-off-Broadway play, unsophisticated camerawork, actors who always look the same, actresses who play eye candy if young and the stereotypical aged mother if old. From director to producer to financier to actor to cameraman to the guy who brings the chai there is not a single professional in the whole lot of them that you could point to and say: there is somebody who knows his work, loves it, and does it well....

Except, that is, for those who make the music. The songs are not supposed to be a vehicle for the story line: the entire film is a vehicle for the songs. When they are bad they can be very, very, bad, but when they are good they are sublime.

Even Aishwarya Rai's absence of any role in Bunty Aur Babli, her complete absence of any point in the film except to be a stunning sex symbol in one scene, heightens rather than takes away from the "Kajra Re" sequence. And how many people across the country have been looking around at their villages and humming, "ham chale, ham chale, o ramchand re!"

So, leave the songs alone. They are what the film industry is all about. Wet saris drag in a few more of the lecherous oglers, and jingoistic plots bring in a few of the RSS types, but it's the power of the music that keeps the entire country transfixed by these films. Take them away and you can throw the entire personnel of the film industry into the Arabian sea after having them kneecapped by their goonda financiers.

anindya911 · Mar 2nd, 2006, 21:00

Quote:

Hindi films have trite, cliched or nonexistent story lines, badly done costumes, ridiculous props, makeup that would mortify an off-off-off-Broadway play, unsophisticated camerawork, actors who always look the same, actresses who play eye candy if young and the stereotypical aged mother if old.

Sorry Sezegnin, but your comment on "Hindi" movie is bit too forced.
I do agree most of them are junk, exactly as you have mentioned, but not all. I guess just as you can't blame all hollywood productions for the crap Van Damme roll out (Though they are quite popular in India), blaming all Hindi movies as senseless is not fair.
What you mentioned here are commercial movies, there's also a bunch of movies called parallel cinema (or art movies). I hope you can chance upon them once in while.

Bye
Anindya

Beena450 · Mar 2nd, 2006, 22:01

I'm sure I read somewhere, that songs were originally put in so people could go out for a toilet or smoke break without missing the plot.

Merchant · Mar 2nd, 2006, 22:21

Whatever their origin, songs (videos) are a key contributor to a film's financial success or failure. Good song sequences can make a break or movie, since they are released separately as videos, which serve as advertising, and then packaged in compilations (revenue). A Bollywood movie, no matter how compelling, would die quickly without songs--"straight" movies are arthouse, low-revenue cinema. Bollywood operates on pretty thin margins, and having multiple income streams like videos and product placements is really important.

The videos are just one module of the whole package. It's not uncommon for them to feature actors who are not in the cast. Sonali Bendre, then a model, got her start in the "Humma Humma" sequence in "Bombay." She's not otherwise in the movie.

crvlvr · Mar 2nd, 2006, 23:46

Songs are what sell the film.The first scenes of a Bollyood film shot are the songs.These song scenes are then showed to distributors who bid for the distribution rights for the movie for each teritory. The rest of the movie is made from this money. Its called pre-selling. Hollywood does it in a big way in the international markets. But uses the stars that it attaches to the project as the sales pitch.

SHIMLA · Mar 3rd, 2006, 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by sadhuji

Unfortunately, what passes off for film music in the present Indian scenario appears to be a directionless madness put together by a group of persons whose sincerity lies in minting millions of rupees in the shortest possible time rather than winning millions of hearts. Sad to say, Indian film songs have little or no relevance to the basic storyline.

I agree. The "songs" in today's films have little -if any- relevance to the basic storyline. This is because the lyrics are quite absurd. This wasn't the case in the good old 60s and 70s; the best decades of Bollywood in my opinion; when songs were an integral part of the storyline and conveyed a lot through the lyrics and the expressions of the actors. In those days we had master composers too, like Madan Mohan, Shankar-Jaikishan, S.D. Burman, R.D. Burman; to enhance the value of lyrics penned by the likes of Sahir Ludhiyanvi, Shakeel Badiyuni and Majrooh Sultanpuri .

About the so called lyricists and composers of today, the less said the better !

Paagla Dashu · Mar 3rd, 2006, 06:03

Sadly Films can at best reflect the reality of the times.

In today's India, which happens to be a very "young" nation (demographics), hardly anyone has time for more subtle emotions or for anything that requires "thinking". The race is for instant gratification.

Add to that the craze to be more hip than the average western youth - and what have you got? A vast majority of the population that is confused about its identity, believing everything that's written in the internet but no time to read books and easily influenced by the fad of the hour.

Films and everything in them, including songs, only reflect that reality.

crvlvr · Mar 3rd, 2006, 06:23

Quote:

the best decades of Bollywood in my opinion;

While this might be true. I think bollywood movies are making a strong comeback. Viewership is up in US, UK, Germany and Switzerland.

SHIMLA · Mar 3rd, 2006, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merchant

The videos are just one module of the whole package. It's not uncommon for them to feature actors who are not in the cast. Sonali Bendre, then a model, got her start in the "Humma Humma" sequence in "Bombay." She's not otherwise in the movie.

That's true. The trend of featuring a popular artiste in just one song sequence started sometime in the mid-80s, if I'm not wrong, with Rekha who was already an established and popular actress then; doing the "Gilli Gilli ..." number in Feroz Khan's "Jaanbaaz". We then had Dimple, another established heroine, doing the "Chumma Chumma..." number in "Pataal Bhairavi". Then followed Sonali with "Humma Humma.." in Bombay, Urmila with "Chamma Chamma.." in "China Gate", Mamta with "Dil Dil Dil..." in "Ghaatak", Aamir Khan doing "Bin Saajan jhoola jhoolun.." in "Damini", etc. etc.

Earlier, sometime in the 70s, we had the immensely popular Amitabh and Dharmendra doing just one qawwali number in the movie "Charandas", which starred comedian Om Prakash in the lead role !

Merchant · Mar 3rd, 2006, 23:54

This is a fun topic.

It's not entirely true that the songs don't advance the narrative. Of course, the usual trend is just to plop down a sexy video into the middle of the movie, but some clever filmmakers find ways to integrate them more readily.

Mani Ratnam (Bombay, Dil Se, Alay Payuthey) usually has them expand on some aspect of character (love/lust) or a task (searching for lost woman or children, a couple pondering having a baby). "Bombay" is even more sophisticated in that a lot of the mob violence, especially toward the end of the movie, is choreographed with A.R. Rahman's instrumental. It's not as if the rioters are dancers, but their actions are stylized--you will see one guy take a sledgehammer to a car over and over again in slow motion, rather like something in a stage play. This is all to say that there are more "merely" cinematographic moments in India movies than just the song & dance bits. Clever directors make good use of them.

Other artsy directors, who make straight movies, find ways to incorporate song & dance, just as a nod to Bollywood. "Monsoon Wedding" finds ways to get its songs in--the cousins performing the "Chunari Chunari" song at the wedding rehearsal (and the song is from another Bollywood movie); the women at the mehendi ceremony, etc.

Song and dance sequences, whether they advance the narrative or not, are as old as Comedy--with a capital C (read your Aristotle and Shakespeare). Classical Greek comedy (of which Shakespeare is an heir) centered on marriages and the activities of the gods. Sounds like Bollywood to me.

Mar 2nd, 2006, 17:16	#1
sadhuji Maha Guru Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: nasik, maharastra Posts: 1,261	songs in indian films I wonder if anyone has ever bothered to carry out a research on how the idea of songs in Indian films came about. I am making a small beginning and putting forth my views. I expect the more knowledgeable to add to my views so that this can become a comprehensive document for future reference. In my honest opinion, film songs are a legacy we have carried forward from the days of village performances by traveling groups who used the medium of songs to spread their message. Mostly, these would be verses recited from the Ramayana or the Mahabharata. The songs composed around characters of these epics would be lapped up by the illiterate village folks, especially the women and children. The songs were an alternative to the written word because the audience could not read or write. The songs, along with the performances, brought to the forefront the good and bad characters and each member of the audience formed his or her opinions of what was good and what was bad. The songs, therefore, were a strong and reliable means of communication. The trend continued in the films of the black and white era where these were used to tell a story – like the song ‘aao bachhe dikhaye tumhe jhanki hindustan ki’ (‘come children, let me show you glimpses of Hindustan’) during the train journey in the film Jagriti where the teacher sings the song created around the important places of historical importance. Other film songs were heard via the radio or the gramophone or an indirect media like the boatman singing to dispel his loneliness on the river – and reflected the mood of the hero or the heroine. Songs in English movies served specific purposes – like the Sound of Music or Can-Can which were basically musicals. Songs in Westerns were usually chorus songs sung around the camp fires and appeared natural under the circumstances. Unfortunately, what passes off for film music in the present Indian scenario appears to be a directionless madness put together by a group of persons whose sincerity lies in minting millions of rupees in the shortest possible time rather than winning millions of hearts. Sad to say, Indian film songs have little or no relevance to the basic storyline. __________________ mooning over a moon journey

Mar 2nd, 2006, 20:21	#2
sezegnin Account Closed Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 82	Completely the other way around actually Hindi films have trite, cliched or nonexistent story lines, badly done costumes, ridiculous props, makeup that would mortify an off-off-off-Broadway play, unsophisticated camerawork, actors who always look the same, actresses who play eye candy if young and the stereotypical aged mother if old. From director to producer to financier to actor to cameraman to the guy who brings the chai there is not a single professional in the whole lot of them that you could point to and say: there is somebody who knows his work, loves it, and does it well.... Except, that is, for those who make the music. The songs are not supposed to be a vehicle for the story line: the entire film is a vehicle for the songs. When they are bad they can be very, very, bad, but when they are good they are sublime. Even Aishwarya Rai's absence of any role in Bunty Aur Babli, her complete absence of any point in the film except to be a stunning sex symbol in one scene, heightens rather than takes away from the "Kajra Re" sequence. And how many people across the country have been looking around at their villages and humming, "ham chale, ham chale, o ramchand re!" So, leave the songs alone. They are what the film industry is all about. Wet saris drag in a few more of the lecherous oglers, and jingoistic plots bring in a few of the RSS types, but it's the power of the music that keeps the entire country transfixed by these films. Take them away and you can throw the entire personnel of the film industry into the Arabian sea after having them kneecapped by their goonda financiers.

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Mar 2nd, 2006, 22:01	#4
Beena450 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 180	I'm sure I read somewhere, that songs were originally put in so people could go out for a toilet or smoke break without missing the plot.

Mar 2nd, 2006, 22:21	#5
Merchant Maha Guru Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York Posts: 2,096	Whatever their origin, songs (videos) are a key contributor to a film's financial success or failure. Good song sequences can make a break or movie, since they are released separately as videos, which serve as advertising, and then packaged in compilations (revenue). A Bollywood movie, no matter how compelling, would die quickly without songs--"straight" movies are arthouse, low-revenue cinema. Bollywood operates on pretty thin margins, and having multiple income streams like videos and product placements is really important. The videos are just one module of the whole package. It's not uncommon for them to feature actors who are not in the cast. Sonali Bendre, then a model, got her start in the "Humma Humma" sequence in "Bombay." She's not otherwise in the movie.

Mar 2nd, 2006, 23:46	#6
crvlvr Guru Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hollywood Posts: 4,474	Songs are what sell the film.The first scenes of a Bollyood film shot are the songs.These song scenes are then showed to distributors who bid for the distribution rights for the movie for each teritory. The rest of the movie is made from this money. Its called pre-selling. Hollywood does it in a big way in the international markets. But uses the stars that it attaches to the project as the sales pitch.

Mar 3rd, 2006, 06:03	#8
Paagla Dashu Unreasonably Unreasonable Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Where They Wear Clogs Posts: 1,223	Sadly Films can at best reflect the reality of the times. In today's India, which happens to be a very "young" nation (demographics), hardly anyone has time for more subtle emotions or for anything that requires "thinking". The race is for instant gratification. Add to that the craze to be more hip than the average western youth - and what have you got? A vast majority of the population that is confused about its identity, believing everything that's written in the internet but no time to read books and easily influenced by the fad of the hour. Films and everything in them, including songs, only reflect that reality.

Mar 3rd, 2006, 23:54	#11
Merchant Maha Guru Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York Posts: 2,096	This is a fun topic. It's not entirely true that the songs don't advance the narrative. Of course, the usual trend is just to plop down a sexy video into the middle of the movie, but some clever filmmakers find ways to integrate them more readily. Mani Ratnam (Bombay, Dil Se, Alay Payuthey) usually has them expand on some aspect of character (love/lust) or a task (searching for lost woman or children, a couple pondering having a baby). "Bombay" is even more sophisticated in that a lot of the mob violence, especially toward the end of the movie, is choreographed with A.R. Rahman's instrumental. It's not as if the rioters are dancers, but their actions are stylized--you will see one guy take a sledgehammer to a car over and over again in slow motion, rather like something in a stage play. This is all to say that there are more "merely" cinematographic moments in India movies than just the song & dance bits. Clever directors make good use of them. Other artsy directors, who make straight movies, find ways to incorporate song & dance, just as a nod to Bollywood. "Monsoon Wedding" finds ways to get its songs in--the cousins performing the "Chunari Chunari" song at the wedding rehearsal (and the song is from another Bollywood movie); the women at the mehendi ceremony, etc. Song and dance sequences, whether they advance the narrative or not, are as old as Comedy--with a capital C (read your Aristotle and Shakespeare). Classical Greek comedy (of which Shakespeare is an heir) centered on marriages and the activities of the gods. Sounds like Bollywood to me.

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