Lonely Planet a book full of Bull Crap

beach

I'm delighted

We've seen time and again a thread started with 'good' intention,slide down with mud flying in all directions....

This is for the first time a 'fume' thread resulted in a lot of intelligent discussions

machadinha

Can't say I've read this whole thread yet but what struck me is how LP is blamed for a) being racist and condescending b) being far too leftist and bleeding-hearted and generally PC. It would logically have to be one or the other don't you think. Maybe people read too much into what is after all just a general guidebook.

<Will be back after reading the whole thread. Well maybe.>

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Rob_The_Pom

Very astute observation.
I've always felt it was a little PC, but very interesting to see how others interpret it.
Mind you, I don't think the OP has actually read the book....

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machadinha

Aye Rob.

Can you quote some samples of why you think this is what they do? You've mentioned before it's about AIDS warnings and so on. With the average level of queries here and the -- no offense -- assumedly juvenile and manifestly silly level of many a question a short warning about where not to leave your weeny doesn't seem at all crazy to me. I've had a chance now to compare several editions and their Spain book warns against AIDS in the same words, although admittedly their Brussels one doesn't. Whether that is because it's a city guide I don't know, we'd have to look up their Belgium guide which I don't have. Telling young single females not to go hitchhiking alone also seems to make sense, and informing people about all those diseases they dread (as is attested to by this forum) seems to make sense, it's not like they tell you to get immunized against one and all of them, contrary to some members here. In fact I imagine the editors going "*yawn* OK guys here goes the malaria bit again." In short I still think they do a fair job, no more and no less. They certainly try to give you some understanding of the culture you're about to visit on many a page, they could do a lot worse and I don't see the racism of it. Have you actually read their India guide?

Speak for yourself please. I still travel without the credit card and the camcorder and I find such guides handy for what they're worth. I don't like the hotel listings and esp. the restaurant listings very much but both are the most fickle business around anywhere in the world and so it doesn't surprise me and at least it gives me an indication of what to expect next door and/or some indication of where to go on my first night.

tadka

I think quoting directly from the text of LP would be helpful, here, too in grounding the discussion.

Here's what LP says about condoms, for instance:

"Travellers to India should consider bringing condoms from their home country -- these may be more reliable than some local brands." page 115, 10th edition.

My take on this: fair statement for the foreign traveller who may not know Indian brands. I don't read this as saying, 'all indian condoms suck...' with underlying racist subtext. I can see how this might be interpreted as such, however.

Other views?

machadinha

On thuggery, from the '92 edition:

"Having things stolen is a problem in India, not so much because it's a theft-prone country -- it isn't -- but because you can get involved in a lot of hassles getting the items replaced. (...)

On trains at night keep your gear near you; padlocking a bag to a luggage rack can be useful, and some of the newer trains have loops under the seats which you can chain things to. (...)

Thieves are particularly prevalent on train routes where there are lots of tourists. The Delhi to Agra express is notorious (...)

Beware also of your fellow travellers (follows some sensible advice ...)

Remember that backpacks are very easy to rifle through (...)

<unquote>

Mind you not one word about muggings or anything like that. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

randomviolins

I have clearly been traveling with the wrong crowd.
Hey, docgirl, you sure you couldn't use another travel companion? Leave your crusty old indian husband at home and take me instead.

crvlvr

I don't understand what the big deal is if LP is not accurate about India. If it is derrogatory enough to make a casual traveller decide not to travel to India, well and good. There will be less "casual" tourists to deal with in Inda.

The motivated traveller will make it to India regardless of what LP states -- and can draw their own conclusions as the OP has.

Now, if the Indian tourism Board has bought more advertisements in the LP, may be, the reviews would be a little more glowing.

passingby

if you guys don't want to use Lonely Planet, then don't, but don't bash it.
As I earlier point it out, it is so easy to bash the Lonely Planet guide after your third or so visit to India and after you repeatedly read the detailed information in the guide.
For a first time traveler to Asia, the book is a fantastic guide. It might have its downfalls, but then again what is perfect... do you think your thinking is perfect? or your ideas?

people are scared of traveling and that is a fact. each and every one of you, the first time you booked your flight to India or other country, experienced some anxiety and don't try to deny it, I won't believe it.
it is so much easier to have an informative guide which tells you where to stay and what to eat.
do you think everybody who goes to India knows about this site? NO! but a lot of people rely on the Lonely Planet guide for information.
I think Lonely Planet did a great job in describing India and its annoyances.
would you trust an Indian condom when you go see a prostitute in India?
I don't think so, you will probably use the best condom out there on the market in the fear of getting AIDS.
would you drink the tap water in India the first time you get thirsty? I don't think so. many of you got the Delhi Belly just by eating some cooked food in a reputable restaurant. forget about drinking the water.
As of my trip in India, Lonely Planet guide was extremely useful. I could say up to 90%. I read about the touts and how to handle them, the bed bugs, the hassling, what to wear... they even said not to trust your driver when you get from the airport... and THANK GOD for that! when I landed, the taxi driver said 'Sudder Street flooded, I know good hotel.' Thank god for Lonely Planet, which warn the travelers about those scams. I told him to bring me to Sudder street anyways to see for myself if it is flooded. and IT WASN'T!

Lonely Planet has a great impact on tourism economy. it recommends many hotels and brings the travelers there. of course it might bring no money to the ones who got a bad review. but that is the way the economy works.

So, please be reasonable and don't bash something so useful! without it, not that many people will travel to India every year.

Merchant

(This is an excellent point, and I stand guilty as charged)

Now, just visit this page from the LP website:

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinat...ndia/facts.htm

First, the stuff about visas is wrong:

"Only six-month tourist visas are extendable. Most Indian embassies and consulates won't issue a visa to enter India unless you hold an onward ticket."

Every six-month tourist visa I've ever gotten has NON-EXTENDABLE clearly written on it, and we all know that you don't have to have proof of an onward ticket. Maybe this was true in the past, but it hasn't been true in the decade I've been traveling to India.

Now read the stuff about disease.

Some highlights:

"Cholera exists where standards of environmental and personal hygiene are low. Every so often there are massive epidemics, usually due to contaminated water in conditions where there is a breakdown of the normal infrastructure."

There is this priviso, though, to allay your fears:

"This is the worst case scenario – only about one in 10 sufferers get this severe form. It's a self-limiting illness, meaning that if you don't succumb to dehydration, it will end in about a week without any treatment."

There's a ton of info about every dreaded disease, explicitly described.

I do not doubt that this is the same information printed in every LP guide serving the tropics. But the overall impression is that by walking around India you are prone to these plagues. You're not. Cholera breaks out during natural disasters like earthquakes and floods, and yet there was no outbreak in the aftermath of the tsunami. Do you really have to worry about cholera as a casual traveler in India? The answer is no. But my god, the personal hygiene of the Indians is so poor! and the infrastructure so weak, I must be at risk for cholera!

You can get sick anywhere in the world. One of the least healthy places you will ever be in your life is on a commercial jetliner, and yet we board them without ever thinking we are putting ourselves at risk for communicable disease, and the guidebooks do not natter on about how dangerous they are.

People should always have the information they need to make choices about what to do with their lives, and I don't fault the LP for wanting to provide it. But the net effect of this information dump is that India is a sick and dangerous place, not least because the locals are dirty.

tadka

Thanks for posting the link, Merchant. That's a very poorly organized page and gives real heft to your argument.

The book does a better job of discussing cholera, for instance, with this preface:

"The following diseases pose small risk to travellers, and so are only mentioned in passing." Under a heading: Less Common Diseases. p.118.

The book does run on for 11 and a half pages about 'health' though, including a remark about athlete's foot. ( Be afraid, be very afraid!) At least it starts off so:

"While the potential dangers can seem quite ominous, in reality few travellers experience anything more than an upset stomach." p. 108.

Karma Queen

as i'm guessing that was mainly directed at me, i'll answer! no one has said that all indian brands suck. just that if there is the merest chance that they'll be unreliable, i wouldn't take the chance! i can think of better souvenirs to take back with me than a disease and/or a baba!

tadka

No, KQ, not directed at you in so much as at OP who seemed to think LP was implying that all Indian condoms were not OK.

Paagla Dashu

First - no I know many people who do not belong to the category who are scared of travelling - in fact I think true travellers are not anywhere. The "Ibiza" or "Bali" or "Goa" crowds normally are - because they are not travelling - they are going to another place.

Second - I have never read anything in LP (and I find LP to be useful and have a whole lot of them) about the risks of getting infections from a commercial airliner. Yet, a very high percentage of people pick up common cold, throat infections, flu from just one flight. A friend of mine had to be hospitalised (in ICCU) for 10 days with a life-threatening Chest Infection after an intercontinental flight

Last - Those whose primary purpose of going to India is to "go see a prostitute" will do well to read the LP a few times and then to run out to the local Boots to buy dozens of Condoms sold by an International Brand (even if the fine print says "Manufactured in China / India" )

Kanehanahou

And not a single post about the lot of you getting together to write your own guidebook...

What a shame to waste all that talent.