Foreigners in Indian films

karuna

OK, I've touched on this before, but my delicate sensibilities have been piqued again. I was looking on LoveFilm for something to rent and came across Dhan Dhana Dhan Goal (which I believe Shashank denounced in another thread somewhere?). Here is the blurb on the film:

Then I read this review:

http://www.lovefilm.com/product/9730...Dhan-Goal.html

(There's also this Times review which mentions this, but is also hilariously offended by the lack of accuracy in the depiction of soccer: "at one point, the football commentator pronounces a 6-nil result as '6 - zero"
http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle2967054.ece)

I did some more digging:

I-Proud to be an Indianreleased 2004.
http://www.planetbollywood.com/Film/...dToBeAnIndian/

I personally sat very, very uncomfortably through Namaste London in a cinema near Rishikesh last year, listening to the most ludicrous racist spew from the British characters. I can forgive the portrayal of white Brits as stuck-up poshos with huge houses and Mercs who hang around in dark nightclubs rubbing up against each other for kicks (sounds more like Mumbai to me...), but the fact that just about every British character by the end had revealed themselves to be shallow, bigoted, offensively ignorant, racist or just generally nasty left me reeling.

So guys, what gives? Do I have this all wrong? Am I extrapolating too much from too few examples (only one of which I've actually seen, tbh. I can't bring myself to watch Goal now)? Or is this really what Indians think Britain is like (or want to see Britain as?)- populated entirely by racists hellbent on denying Indians happiness and success and permanently disdainful of other cultures?

*dons film critic hat- hey, I have an A in A-level Film Studies! * Or are movies like Goal and Namaste London reflections of one aspect of Indian self-image? The plucky underdog defeating the nasty whites? When he gets the girl or the goal, are we re-enacting Independence all over again? Or something?

And finally, yes, I know Western films stereotype Indians. Actually usually they ignore them completely. However, I think the level of bigotry on display in films like Namaste London is in another league entirely. And anyway, two wrongs do not make a right.

shashank.aggarwal

Its only when I read this post that I realized that Yes !! those things are actually incorrect and makers should have been more sensible...

But as per my understanding, Most of Indians including me, do not understand the meaning of racism...we have experienced discrimination of all sorts but not racism (to a large extent)..

Even in above movies, I won't say that these things are racist, but yes stereotyping is the more appropriate word..

Yes I agree, this would be more appropriate explanation...

And there always has been a resentment factor about Indians leaving India for greener pastures, so these movies somehow try to portray the message that life is not that rosy abroad as well...

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PeakXV

I don't think there is any hidden agenda or 'propaganda' in movies in general - you kinda of take it not too seriously for what it's worth - a few hours diversion in the form of moving pictures/video frames.

However you can't fault the directors/producers to add a little international flare, intrigue or rivalry every now and then.

Somebody people hate all American movies (and John Wayne too) or find Brtish movies extremely boring or Indian movies all the same plotless dance & song schlock .... but at the end of the day they are all just a form of lesiure entertainment - nothing more, nothing less.

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Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions?

capt_mahajan

First of all, I see a movie a year or thereabouts, so I should not be commenting on Ballywood (or is that a O there )


Not really- and though I can only speak for myself and a few others who have mentioned it to me- some including me do believe racism is higher or more on the surface in Britain compared to some other western countries. But thats all it is, tarring all Britishers with the same brush is inaccurate, absurd and racist in itself.

Shashank may be right about stereotyping and wrong about Indians experiencing racism (abroad or at home), but the fact is that many Indians can be pretty racist too, within India and without.

History taught in schools is wonky and stereotyped too- Muslim rule downplayed, British rule atrocities glossed over et al.

This warps things in many ways. Outside the taught syllabus- for eg- many believe that all Muslim rulers were tyrants and oppressed Hindus. In fact many, like Akbar and even Zafar, did the opposite. (Interestingly, Akbar and Ashoka may have been the most benign, tolerant and farsighted emperors, and one was Buddhist and the other Muslim)

Same for the British, many of the direct oppressors were Indian in those days, though the comfortable belief seems to be that the British oppressed all Indians.

I guess what I am trying to say is that part of Indian racism comes from confused ignorance. Also from jingoism. But that is the same as for British, or xyz racism.

As for Ballywood, extremes sell like short skirts. So excuse their ignorance, though they are dangerous in a way because for millions of Indians, that caricature on screen may be the closest they will come to a white foreigner-and these millions will probably not diffrentiate between a Briton and a Frenchman, or whatever.

And that is racism too, because it is a sterotypical view based just on colour of skin.

Bigzero

Of all the films mentioned in the OP, I have watched only Namaste London. Oh the scenes involving the white spewing out racist nonsense and the hero responding will have you squirm in your seat in embarrassment. I was kind of a passive audience ( the one that works on the laptop while family watches TV and occassionally looks up to catch the action ) so I couldnt really get to change the channel.

Whites and to some extent dark skinned folks ( blacks/afr.americans) have usually very defined roles in Bollywood scheme of things. They include ( list not exhaustive )

Whites:
- evil british general/soldier who sits on a horse and yells "kill the bastards!" when poor Indians get attacked
- evil british judge who sentences the poor Indian to imprisonment or death
- Phoren businessman who usually stays in the background and appreciatively nods his head when some large business deal happens involving the hero
- sidekick of a very powerful Villain to indicate his international clout
- Muscleman/bouncer who goes around and beats people to pulp for the villain (A gent called Bob Christo used to specialise in these roles)
- openly racist white man in UK/US based films where the film maker usually has an axe to grind.
- russian/east european girls, preferably well endowed blondes for big bollywood dances

Dark skinned folks:
- usually relegated to sidekick roles for powerful villains to show his international clout ( if you can get a white and a black in one frame nothing like it )
- to shake the booty in beach dances

Nowadays white girls and boys appear as girlfriends/boyfriends to Indian heroes/heroines. But i have never seen an african in this category yet.

Yes, exceptions are there, but few and far between.

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karuna

Hmm, lots of varied opinions!

But I did a whole year's worth of work on how to critically assess a film! Are you saying I have a made-up qualification?
Lightweight or not, what a society sees as fitting entertainment tells you a lot about that society. Film is a text, I'm a literature graduate. I analyse. Unless its an SRK film, in which which case I mostly dribble. It amounts to the same thing.

That's interesting. I should look into the writers/directors/producers perhaps. Kind of embarrassing, that short list of roles for black people, huh? At least in Britain we have shows like Hustle where black people get to play...er...conmen.

Agreed, but there's more than that going on I think. Several Bollywood movies I've seen have really been pushing Indian identity. Chak De India, Goal, Namaste London (in the sickening scene BigZero describes) for example, all are in some way or another about bolstering, or evening defining, Indian identity. All have some kind of foreign enemy to battle against, in all of these three cases, white people. Chak De India is in a different class imho and it isn't just the presence of King K that makes me say that!

I don't think I have a point to come to, other than that if art imitates life, insofar as one can call it art, Bollywood is holding up a mirror to a nation in the middle of an identity crisis. And British people are all racist and Switzerland is a good place to go on your honeymoon.

capt_mahajan

.

View from a person who is very poorly informed about films:

Ballywood doesn't imitate life or hold mirrors, it just tries to sell. So, in a country getting excited about it's economy and place in the world, foreign enemies and jingoism sell.

And Bollywood tries to sell more to overseas Indians and NRI's, who are often 'more Indian than the Indians'. Why? Because it makes more money there than here.

So, hey, maybe saying or implying that all British people are racists is a good business practice.

the opoponax

For what it's worth, that's a good description of at least half the Brits I ran into traveling around India. It's also not entirely off base for a great deal of Americans. I've also met my share of shallow, ignorant, bigoted, nasty, etc. Indians. A lot of people in this world correspond to one or more of those descriptions, as sad as that is.

Though I should say that this isn't a defense of that particular movie, per se. I would guess that the English are portrayed the way they are in Indian films for a lot of complex cultural reasons. American southerners get similar vilifying treatment in a lot of American films, for instance. Not to mention that Bollywood itself encourages a very black-and-white cookie cutter treatment of characters. The villain is THE VILLAIN. The hero is THE HERO. Bollywood does not appear to know the word 'nuance'.

I also found, working on Bollywood films, that the writers, directors, etc. aren't very interested in accuracy. For instance the swastika painted on the door of the Indian cafe in Kal Ho Na Ho, which takes place in the NYC area -- if an Indian restaurant heavily featured the swastika in its decor here, it would go out of business within weeks. Or, as another example from the same production team, the idea that a girl named Puja (Kabhi Kushie Kabhi Gam) would move to the UK and want to be called 'Poo'. Errrr, no.

You kind of have to push the real world to the back of your mind when you pop in a Bollywood DVD.

NeeliAankhen

Big topic, I'll probably come back and have more to say when I'm not supposed to be doing something esle, as I am right now.

For now I'd say this - in general, Bollywood is a genre that operates via stereotype, and not via a conception of the individualized character. Many of its best products are like tales, or what get called fairytales. So to me, critical thinking about them is most valid when this premise is in place.

This would not mean all attributions of "racism" -- or bias, as the idea of race gets pretty problematic pretty fast -- are irrelevant. But I'd say if you reject all stereotyping, you've got nothing left where many movies are concerned, where men are manly or boyish, girls are girlish, moms are motherly, villains are villainous, etc.

To the list of types , I'd add the foreign woman who does alluring dances, drinks alcohol, and associates with men in a non-virtuous way -- she's been phased out in the modern era, but was wonderfull represented by the beloved Helen in hundreds of movies, where she was usually named Kitty or Lilly.

capt_mahajan

I'd add her too, just as soon as I find her

(Sorry, sorry- couldn't resist)

Ignite

yup....

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karuna

There doesn't seem to be a "childish giggling behind hand" smiley, but that's what I'm doing....

If the Macarena counts as an alluring dance I might have met with the above description on occasion!


I don't know. Perhaps I read too much of the liberal media, but there's quite a bit of hand-wringing going on about portrayals of other races, particularly middle-eastern people in Western TV and film. Is anyone in India pointing out the racism in its film indsutry (I am limiting myself to Bollywood as I know nothing about the other industries)?

Captain_Neel

i did not watch many bollywood films but what all i watched i think you don't need to take bollywood too seriously. just laugh at their ignorance.

Indojingai

The thick of target audience for Bollywood is in rural / b class cities in India. Abstract, moderate, euality etc are unknown concepts there.(not saying that's not true of urban parts either) So a movie includes fair amount of cheap, slapstick, low brow references.
in the same breath... so Jallian wala bagh thing never happened ...?

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the opoponax

That's what I was doing the whole movie. Poo? Really? I mean, I could see if she decided to go by Penny or Jamie or P. J. or really almost anything else. But Poo? And I know the writer, director, producers, etc. speak English fluently and have traveled widely in the rest of the Anglophone world. How could they not know?

(unrelated sidenote -- I went to high school with a girl named Puja who stuck with full-on Puja and seemed to be much the better for it. very punk rock. She was the diasporic take on the Boy Named Sue)