Do ARTISTS/MUSICIANS make a living in India?

capt_mahajan

In North India, at least, traditionally, artists of all kinds, from poets to singers to musicians, were patronised by kings and royalty. Some of them were extremely rich and/or famous. Tansen is one famous example.

Discipleship often led to Gharanas (lineage or tradition) with the rich continuing to patronise musicians.

With the collapse of this system, classical artists now find it increasingly difficult to make a living, unless they are hyped and/or famous. Or, sometimes, very good. The better ones used to have some avenues with State run Radio and television, and still do, but viewership is dwindling.

Piscesman, George Harrison discovering Ravi Shankar reminds me of Columbus discovering America

Err, both were already there.


PS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tansen

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machadinha

May be doubling up here as I didn't carefully study ensuing conversation.

Just thinking here's one thought that might bear, um, reconsideration.

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crowgirl

When you are broke, you are a "wandering minstrel"
When you have some cash, you are a "touring musician"

same same
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Piscesman, George Harrison discovering Ravi Shankar reminds me of Columbus discovering America

Err, both were already there.
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Now, that's some funny stuff!!!!!

The better ones used to have some avenues with State run Radio and television, and still do, but viewership is dwindling.

Getting to the AIR Gov't radio thing- is it still considered to be the highest sort of recognition if one's work is being broadcasted on it?

I may be reading incorrectly but it sounded from above posting as if that is going the way of the dinos in a sense.

I remember being told last year if you are brought up/schooled in AIR system then you receive a "rating"-

Also during festival season of Dec-Jan ONLY those "rated" folks can play high profile/prestigious venues having been brought up thru that system...others not of that class have to play the poorer venues. Plus NO chance of anyone being played on AIR radio if not brought up thru their "rating" system.

Sound about right?

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Piscesman

Interesting you should interpret 'discover' in a pejorative sense.
I meant George's discovery was personal to him, development as a musician.
That Ravi was thrust into the spotlight with George for a while there was a good thing. All us bandwagon jumping kids had some new attitude to get our ears around.

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capt_mahajan

Not really, I found it funny.

Though your point is a good one, maybe some of the hype is a good thing coz it exposes more to different music.. and works both ways I guess. I remember many Indians at a concert who had never heard of Ian Anderson, but were there because he was playing with Chaurasia.

Blasphemous to me at that time. People who hadn't heard of Tull?

crowgirl

What I wrote:

...rather that most talented artists are unappreciated here in US especially since there is a glut of folks all attempting to do this same thing with advent of technology/the tweaking of untalented to appear talented and image being more important than actual talent.

machadinha wrote:

Just thinking here's one thought that might bear, um, reconsideration.
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From my perspective I see that to be the case in this world (re: image) but my heart and Be-ing most assuredly DOES NOT agree with the concept.

Maybe I'm not understanding/clear on what you meant in your post?

Piscesman

It's to do with traditional folk musicians training to support singing, dance & storytelling particular to their community,culture, and indeed religion here. Unless you have a pretty solid background in Indian culture, you don't understand what you're watching or listening to, because it has no context for you/us in the West.

Prior to the late sixties (psychodelic era) and early nineties (ethnic and world fusion era), Indian instruments and singing were an utter novelty to the majority of western ears.

As I said to Capt- Maharajathingy, I used the term as referring to George making a personal discovery in his muscial development. It also happened to give Ravi world wide exposure. It didn't enter my mind that people would interpret it as a claim jump type of expression. Or do you guys just want a fight?>? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me??


Yes, Nick, and if any country in the world has the population to support arts across the board, it's this one. Just a case of helping people develop appreciation and a balanced, healthy appetite. Fortunately, kids here are brought up on the Ramayana, Mahabharata and Gita. The foundation is there.

machadinha

I think what I meant is this concept of the artist being low-caste is common in the West too (unless under the tutelage of some patron -- and kissing up to their demands), and has traditionally been so.

Actors were considered heretics almost by definition, viewed with high suspicion at least, by the Church of yore -- presumably because of their pretense of taking on a persona they were not (issues of the undivisable soul).

Robert Graves has written some interesting stuff on the demise of the classic Druid poet (and the mass of knowledge they were expected to acquire) when they became court poets, reduced to the mere function of primarily singing the praise of their master, and the Church at large. See e.g. his The White Goddess (itself later rebuked, of course.) (Funny enough the "National Poet" the Netherlands at least knows today seems to serve a not dissimilar function, some acceptable mild dissent notwithstanding, but nothing like the poet's curse of pre-Christian eras where a decent satire might literally blow the subject to pieces.)

Etc. Anyway what I meant is I think blaming it all to commercialism seems an understatement to me, I think it goes much deeper. Rembrandt and the likes only survived by virtue of their playing to the courts' or their patrons' wishes.

Nick-H

This thread is getting complicated, with many strands.
Mach, Indian musicians are not seen as low caste. The classical ones are mostly high-caste. If folk musicians are seen to be low-caste it will be because of their tribal background, not because of their musical profession

Piscesman, I'm not out to fight about Ravi. He is the one who I've seen to bristle on this subject.

Crowgirl, first --- please experiment with the Quote and " buttons! The latter will cause a number of posts to be quoted ready for you when you click on Post Reply --- now...

I don't know about 'highest, but it is certainly seen as big recognition. However there is also a great deal of politicing, preference and favouritism in the system. I've even heard it said that some of the senior artists on the board feel threatened by really good upcoming artists and don't like to grade them.

Different grades are (or were) guaranteed a minimum amount of employment per month by AIR. So money is certainly a part of it, yes. It is nice for them to be able to say they are "A-grade AIR artist" on their CV

There is a system, yes, starting at the lower grades, defined timescales, applying for promotion --- but it does not have anything to do with the artist's training or schooling in music. That is bewteen the artist and his teacher --- the Gharana that the captain mentioned, the guru-shishya parampara tradition.

No, that is not so. I'm sure that some of the senior artists must have never bothered with AIR. What counts for the sabhas is seniority and pulling power, not AIR grading. Of course, personal politics is involved too!
That may very well be true. Think of the competition for a decreasing number of classical broadcasting slots. This is not necessarily a bad thing!

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crowgirl

Machadinha, Thanks kindly for taking the time to tell me your musings. It was well thought out and very much cleared up the confusion on my side.

Nick, I will try to behave myself w/ quote buttons and the like.
Thank you for your response concerning my questions about AIR system.

Nick-H

but, hey! forum help fits in anywhere
You can manually put [quote]and[/quote] tags around the stuff you want boxed. This is particularly useful in a reply like mine where you want to answer specific points one by one. If you are in the Post Reply screen, rather than the Quick Reply box at the bottom of every page, you can use Preview to check how it is coming.

And don't worry too much... we mods try to clear up stuff like broken quote boxes

GauhatiBoy

Jethro for sure woot woot