Dalai Lama v. China

SitaParityaga

Not so, Nick. We just honor religious freedom and don't give a s**t who gets pissed off that we do. Business will go on, I'm sure, as usual between the US and China: despite the US honoring a world famous religeous leader.

Nick-H

The US might see it that way; it may very well be that way; but does China see it that way?

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dzibead

Yes, Tibet is like the weather: everybody talks about it but nobody does anything about it. And are not likely to, either, since they haven't for the past 50-60 years, except for the brief period when the U.S. was supporting the Tibetan guerrilla movement, largely to needle the Chinese before the Nixon-Kissinger rapprochment.

The whole "Free Tibet" thing -- and what one should do about it -- is complicated by the fact that the Dalai Lama himself has given up calling for actual independence, much to the consternation of the true "rangzen" (independence) supporters ... including his own oldest brother (who has lived in he U.S. since the 1950's and was a professor at the University of Indiana in Bloomington!) Instead, the DL's "Middle Path" policy asks for "autonomy" of the historical Tibetan areas within China, with control over social and "domestic" affairs, including religious practices, leaving matters of defense and foreign relations to China. As if. The Chinese Govt is far too paranoid and controlling ever to go for this, so I don't know why he even bothers with this Middle Path stuff. He seems to think it's more "realistic", or that it will appease the Chinese and they will be more open to the idea of "autonomy" than they would be to a demand for outright independence (which they would obviously flatly reject). Fat chance. There's no way in hell the Chinese are going to go for the DL's "automony" either. Thinking they will just seems naive. It's not terribly surprising that the world community isn't willing to do much politically for Tibet (and never has been -- instead just getting little periodic "feel good" hits by honoring the DL with awards and medals and plaques for his "non-violence") -- when there's no clear, unified agenda among Tibetans themselves, some of whom want true independence (and would be willing to fight and die - and kill - for it) and some of whom are willing to settle for something less.

Hardly. After all, there are still millions of Tibetans in Tibet, both in the so-called Tibetan Autonomous Region and in the adjacent areas outside the TAR itself, but only a few hundred thousand Tibetans in exile. And Tibetan culture is still very much alive in the TAR and the surrounding provinces of the PRC. I won't say it's "alive and well" because it is definitely under social and political pressure from the Chinese Govt and Han hegemony. But if you think the brand of Tibetan culture found in the exile community in India is "pure," think again. Lots of Tibetans in India are themselves unaware of how "Indianized" they are - linguisitically, food-wise, and in many other ways. And even with respect to Tibetans in India, Dharamsala is not even the largest community. There are far, far more Tibetans in settlements like Bylakuppe and Mundgod in Southern India, so Dharamasala is hardly the only repository of Tibetan culture in exile.

As I said above, there are still millions of Tibetans in Tibet both in the TAR and in the surrounding provinces and they are maintaining their culture more than the Western media and even the Tibetan-Goverment-in-Exile would have us believe. But I fear that what's going to happen over time is that they are going to become like Native Americans in the U.S. and Canada, or like the native Hawaiians in Hawaii - a minority in their own country. This is most evident to date in Lhasa, but at least Tibetans are still a majority in outlying areas ... without much political or economic clout, however, unless they become part of the Chinese "system".

The latest from Comcast.net: http://www.comcast.net/news/index.js...cvqh=itn_china

Alohaguy

Bead, a thorough analysis indeed!
Thanks

dzibead

Thanks! If you're interested in the issue of public perceptions of the Tibetan issue, I highly recommend a book called "History as Propaganda, Tibetan Exiles versus the People's Republic of China" by John Powers, who is a Buddhism and Tibetan culture scholar at the Australian National University in Canberra (though I think he may be American). It's only about 150 pages long but it's excellent (and is available on amazon.com).

SitaParityaga

It seems they don't. But I must say, I bet the US isn't the only country who has honored the DL.

And yes, we can be a self centered lot....made worse by the current administration. Point taken!

Nick-H

I wasn't at all criticizing the US, on this occasion! On the contrary, I'm delighted to hear this news.

Anyway, I suspect that 'honouring religious freedom' is, in itself, sufficient to 'hurt the feelings of the Chinese people'!

Patheya

The threat from Humanitaian societies for atrocities committed by inhumane societies-
'Look, if you do that again... we're going to have to send you a very nasty letter. and if you do it again... we're going to get ALOT of people to sign it!! Now - be warned!'

pantelis

with the rest of the Tibetans and honor His Holiness!!!Long Live His Holiness!!!

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Nick-H

And GWB has "told" China that they should talk to the DL!

Wonders really will never cease.

Well... it's one of the lessons of Mahabharata: the bad are not all bad!

dzibead

In the face of the somewhat patronizing comments from some quarters (ahem), I feel it's worth noting that the "horrible" United States has been telling China to "talk to the Dalai Lama" for years, and the U.S. Department of State actually has a "Special Coordinator for Tibetan Issues." Of course, it hasn't done a damn bit of good, but at least the U.S. has been willing to go officially "on record" (under both liberal and conservative administrations) in criticizing China's human rights and civil liberties violations and speaking out in support of Tibetan issues, which is more than a lot of other countries have been willing to do. Considering the close relationship Britain cultivated with Tibet during the first half of the 20th century, it was pretty shocking the the way it just walked away from Tibet without a backward glance after the Chinese took control. I suppose Britain was still reeling from WWII at that point, but nevertheless ... bad show ...

Nick-H

Should I be blushing?

Probably! --->

Lugubert

I hope I'll get a better feeling for the complex situation by next autumn. My plan is to tour China, focussing on Tibet, together with a person who is fluent in two Chinese languages but a Swedish citizen.

Nothing can excuse the damage to Tibet's (and the world's) cultural heritage when China appropriated the region. On the other hand, it's not possible to earmark an area as a museum piece that's not allowed to evolve ever.

The same questions apply to for example the modernization of Ladakh. What is lost or gained by exchanging "modern" ways of living, like available healthcare, efficient communications etc., for what seems to have been a sustainable economy that suited people there?

maltabella

maybe it could be the freedom to evolve (is it really evolution?) following your own tradition, your cultural heritage; in this way a nation can grow on its own roots and develop its character, thus developing with a clear identity. Look at what is happening to China after "cultural revolution": once China was one of the most impressive cultural basins in the world, thay have lost their history, and now all they want is just to look like USA, and they are clearly failing. No history, no identity, no nations.

and what is the aim of all this? to protect poor tibetans people? to defend tibetan culture? or is this just a way to attack- somehow and sometimes- chinese gvt? Please help me out to believe that even this action is not hiding a merely american political and economical interest...

ranjan154

I was in McLeodGunj, last month i could feel how Tibetian feel about their homeland. Almost all hotels and restaurants had posters and photographs of recent arrest by chinese army. Some we feel helpless ..

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