The India confusion

Nick-H · Dec 18th, 2007, 14:22

Quote:

As they say: 24,363 IndiaMikers can't be wrong

that should be 24, 360. Three of them really did hate the place!

But what's so different about India? I remember being scared about my first visit to Paris! It was only a business day trip, and all I had to do was to get a taxi from the station to the office --- but everybody told me all these stories about French language, and how even the drivers who speak fluent English will never admit it, everyone wants to punish you for not speaking French, blah, blah, blah....

OK, I had to get the driver to write the fare, and I was still a little confused by the french 7 (a one with a bar through it), and a cosmopolitan Japanese colleague settled there assured me that it was the rudest city she knew, but (work aside) I had a great day out, and it was the first of several enjoyable visits to that beautiful city.

kristinm · Dec 18th, 2007, 15:14

I think you get scareder (?) as you get older - when I set off for London and Europe all alone at 25 - I didn't spare a thought for anything going wrong, just threw myself in. This time, at 45 - I think of all the things that can go wrong.....

machadinha · Dec 18th, 2007, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

But what's so different about India?

'Tis true, of course, I have this anywhere. Like you indicate, at least in India you can reasonably get by with English.

Here's Mach spontaneously looking up some Germans he's met: Agreed to be picked up at station in some unknown town. Stands waiting outside for half an hour; starts thinking hmm taking their phone nr. or address with me might have actually been a good idea. Turns out unlike where he lives, train arrival times are well-signposted here & it is therefore customary to pick each other up at the platform, not at the main exit.

So all's well that ends well, one tends to get around somehow. (Hmm... thinking now of that one time of not being allowed back into East Berlin where one's warm room and friends happen to be in the middle of the night at -20C and a meter or two of snow.)

<cross-posted with Kristin...> In a way, yes, maybe. In another way, I'm less concerned about all the little things that might happen I think. Anyway I just really enjoy being on the move, to anywhere really, so that must help. Mind you, having kids to look after and so on would be different again.

Nick-H · Dec 18th, 2007, 15:23

I'm much more concerned as I get older.

I hate the idea, for instance, of not pre-booking.

Stuck on the wrong side of the Berlin wall in -20, eh? That does not sound like fun

machadinha · Dec 18th, 2007, 15:30

Yes... luckily we'd been to a gig in some underground venue in West Berlin just shortly before. So after an hour or two of looking for the place in a city half that was largely unbeknownst to us & hoping not to accidentally venture into skinheadurbia, we knocked at their door and were kindly offered a place to crash.

Anyway, I guess this was about India confusion

gia · Dec 19th, 2007, 00:10

I agree w/Kristin that I have gotten less adventurous as I have "aged" (45). My parents were overseas in Lesotho while I was in college and I didn't worry about all the things that could go wrong the first time I visited them (even though there was no nonstop flight to Jo'burg at the time and I had to stay overnight at the airport hotel). I guess ignorance is bliss.

Btw, I came across this online dictionary that I thought might be helpful for India newbies like me:

http://www.amritt.com/IndianEnglishAll.html

kristinm · Dec 19th, 2007, 03:39

Machadinha - How great was Berlin in those days???? I also sampled the underground clubs, there were loads in that corner Kreuzberg? The Turkish area where the wall made kind of a corner..? we had a totally lost 5 days and nights just going from punk club to heavy metal club to jazz club to all night cafes to transvetite club to gay S&M club (not for too long, ouch!)... I knew Berlin's reputation from the 20's and 30's as a place where anything goes and people partied very hard - it hadn't changed that much. I wonder if it changed after the wall came down, I never went back... I tell young German kids now that I saw the wall and went through checkpoint charlie and all that and they can't believe it.

And now here I am stressing about India, I think I'll just think of it as 'the biggest mosh pit in the world' as we christened it on another thread and throw myself in... I think the fact I'm travelling with child in tow makes me scared and cautious, most of my fears seem to centre around him being either swept off in a crowd or kidnapped or attacked by a rabid monkey (I know..)

machadinha · Dec 19th, 2007, 03:51

I'm sorry -- my friends sort of got swept away by post-'89 events and we lost touch -- they used to be in what was roughly the countercultural scene there, all highly interesting but I think they weren't ready for what they had coming -- and it all fell apart soon after that.

Kind of the drama that is the former GDR today I think -- unfulfilled promises, after all those years of yearningly and illegally watching West German TV. A drama that touches all of Eastern Europe if you ask me. Those people have suffered for so long... I've never not been touched by them.

In short, even I haven't been back since -- don't think I liked the GDR, but I liked those friends, and it was sad to see the place succumb to McDonald's and whatnot in no time. I wonder what remains today. There was something of a revival just post-89 yes, but even the Western underground types were quite disdainful about their Eastern compatriots' underdevelopedness, I thought it all quite ugly.

ps Kreuzberg is of course the place to be for this thing in West Berlin. I hear like many such areas in all of Europe it's largely been yuppified, but there should be some good niches there still. Would have to check for myself. Prenzlauerberg is a former Eastern area that got squatted then artistic then yuppified I believe.

In short, I know the East German scene there much better than the Western -- it was fascinating while it lasted. Some friends of mine were in a band and did a song called "Kommunismus muss sein" (You gotta have Communism), a total pastiche of course. In a live act (you need to realize these were usually staged in the local Communist Youth Party's center or so) they were waving some GDR flags doing the song, which accidentally caught fire. Soon after, they heard youngsters speaking on some subway platform: Did you hear about that band? They burn GDR flags on stage!!

Ah, how myths are born, eh

kristinm · Dec 19th, 2007, 04:04

That's kind of the vibe I have picked up from people, and now kids tell me they would never go to Kreuzberg because of all the 'immigrants'. Didn't spend much time in East Germany but was in Moscow just before and after Perestroika - fascinating time, and amazing underground stuff going on - drama, music, poetry....

machadinha · Dec 19th, 2007, 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristinm

and now kids tell me they would never go to Kreuzberg because of all the 'immigrants'

Hm, well, depends on who you want to hang out with, no doubt. It's where other friends of mine still live. But then those kids and others might not like my area either. If you want good falafel or similar for a Euro or two, I'd say Kreuzberg is still the place to head to. Even where I live can't beat that.

gia · Dec 19th, 2007, 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by machadinha

I generally find that going anywhere it drops from your shoulders the moment you get on the plane, or if not, surely the moment you get off of it. As for the hating it there bit, for me getting on the move was what made me get into it. And I shouldn't have worried so much and wanted to do and understand as much those first days.

As they say: 24,363 IndiaMikers can't be wrong, so just go and enjoy & take it easy. If this is your first solo trip abroad, it's a far easier country to travel in than some others I can think of. If it makes you feel better, returning there was like coming home.

Another piece of great advice. Thanks!

machadinha · Dec 19th, 2007, 04:27

Y'r most welcome. I'm actually glad, as I'm sure we all are, to know if it's of any use; one simply never knows.

So be sure to report back afterwards and tell us what crap we told

gia · Dec 19th, 2007, 04:31

I will

Lugubert · Jan 20th, 2008, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by article

The itch makes you to go there again. This time you have a better control over the scheme of things and are more adventurous. The advanced India traveler ego drives you to explore the out of the circuit and remote places.

I hate dal. I hate Indian night trains. I hate full sleeper buses where a double berth is too small for one Swede. I hate commitments that force me to wait until at least autumn '08 before returning to India.

luv2go · Jan 23rd, 2008, 20:11

i am so glad I caught this article. It made me "homesick" all over again. When i left the states for India, one of my travel partners said "You can remember all of the sounds, sights, tastes, take 500 pictures, and record every thought, and still not adequately describe your experience." I have found no truer words were ever spoken. Friends and family can not fathom my desire to get back to a place where cows roam the street and trash is in abundance. I first tried and tried to give every reason and detail that made India the home of my heart, but now it is just an "I loved it and I can't wait to get back!". The most horrible part of the trip was when my plane left the ground in Chennai. I reviewed my pics and teared-up nearly every hour of my 20 hours of flight time home. Occasionally I go to the local Indian restaurant for a fix, but we all know nothing compares. Thanks, for the piece.

Dec 19th, 2007, 00:10	#126
gia Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Des Plaines, IL Posts: 29	India Newbies I agree w/Kristin that I have gotten less adventurous as I have "aged" (45). My parents were overseas in Lesotho while I was in college and I didn't worry about all the things that could go wrong the first time I visited them (even though there was no nonstop flight to Jo'burg at the time and I had to stay overnight at the airport hotel). I guess ignorance is bliss. Btw, I came across this online dictionary that I thought might be helpful for India newbies like me: http://www.amritt.com/IndianEnglishAll.html

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Dec 18th, 2007, 15:14	#122
kristinm Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Beautiful Bondi (not Bundi!) Posts: 1,474	I think you get scareder (?) as you get older - when I set off for London and Europe all alone at 25 - I didn't spare a thought for anything going wrong, just threw myself in. This time, at 45 - I think of all the things that can go wrong.....

Dec 18th, 2007, 15:23	#124
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,829	I'm much more concerned as I get older. I hate the idea, for instance, of not pre-booking. Stuck on the wrong side of the Berlin wall in -20, eh? That does not sound like fun

Dec 18th, 2007, 15:30	#125
machadinha Not Your Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: yörp Posts: 10,561	Yes... luckily we'd been to a gig in some underground venue in West Berlin just shortly before. So after an hour or two of looking for the place in a city half that was largely unbeknownst to us & hoping not to accidentally venture into skinheadurbia, we knocked at their door and were kindly offered a place to crash. Anyway, I guess this was about India confusion

Dec 19th, 2007, 03:39	#127
kristinm Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Beautiful Bondi (not Bundi!) Posts: 1,474	Machadinha - How great was Berlin in those days???? I also sampled the underground clubs, there were loads in that corner Kreuzberg? The Turkish area where the wall made kind of a corner..? we had a totally lost 5 days and nights just going from punk club to heavy metal club to jazz club to all night cafes to transvetite club to gay S&M club (not for too long, ouch!)... I knew Berlin's reputation from the 20's and 30's as a place where anything goes and people partied very hard - it hadn't changed that much. I wonder if it changed after the wall came down, I never went back... I tell young German kids now that I saw the wall and went through checkpoint charlie and all that and they can't believe it. And now here I am stressing about India, I think I'll just think of it as 'the biggest mosh pit in the world' as we christened it on another thread and throw myself in... I think the fact I'm travelling with child in tow makes me scared and cautious, most of my fears seem to centre around him being either swept off in a crowd or kidnapped or attacked by a rabid monkey (I know..)

Dec 19th, 2007, 03:51	#128
machadinha Not Your Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: yörp Posts: 10,561	I'm sorry -- my friends sort of got swept away by post-'89 events and we lost touch -- they used to be in what was roughly the countercultural scene there, all highly interesting but I think they weren't ready for what they had coming -- and it all fell apart soon after that. Kind of the drama that is the former GDR today I think -- unfulfilled promises, after all those years of yearningly and illegally watching West German TV. A drama that touches all of Eastern Europe if you ask me. Those people have suffered for so long... I've never not been touched by them. In short, even I haven't been back since -- don't think I liked the GDR, but I liked those friends, and it was sad to see the place succumb to McDonald's and whatnot in no time. I wonder what remains today. There was something of a revival just post-89 yes, but even the Western underground types were quite disdainful about their Eastern compatriots' underdevelopedness, I thought it all quite ugly. ps Kreuzberg is of course the place to be for this thing in West Berlin. I hear like many such areas in all of Europe it's largely been yuppified, but there should be some good niches there still. Would have to check for myself. Prenzlauerberg is a former Eastern area that got squatted then artistic then yuppified I believe. In short, I know the East German scene there much better than the Western -- it was fascinating while it lasted. Some friends of mine were in a band and did a song called "Kommunismus muss sein" (You gotta have Communism), a total pastiche of course. In a live act (you need to realize these were usually staged in the local Communist Youth Party's center or so) they were waving some GDR flags doing the song, which accidentally caught fire. Soon after, they heard youngsters speaking on some subway platform: Did you hear about that band? They burn GDR flags on stage!! Ah, how myths are born, eh

Dec 19th, 2007, 04:04	#129
kristinm Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Beautiful Bondi (not Bundi!) Posts: 1,474	That's kind of the vibe I have picked up from people, and now kids tell me they would never go to Kreuzberg because of all the 'immigrants'. Didn't spend much time in East Germany but was in Moscow just before and after Perestroika - fascinating time, and amazing underground stuff going on - drama, music, poetry....

Dec 19th, 2007, 04:27	#132
machadinha Not Your Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: yörp Posts: 10,561	Y'r most welcome. I'm actually glad, as I'm sure we all are, to know if it's of any use; one simply never knows. So be sure to report back afterwards and tell us what crap we told

Dec 19th, 2007, 04:31	#133
gia Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Des Plaines, IL Posts: 29	I will

Jan 23rd, 2008, 20:11	#135
luv2go Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: usa Posts: 22	i am so glad I caught this article. It made me "homesick" all over again. When i left the states for India, one of my travel partners said "You can remember all of the sounds, sights, tastes, take 500 pictures, and record every thought, and still not adequately describe your experience." I have found no truer words were ever spoken. Friends and family can not fathom my desire to get back to a place where cows roam the street and trash is in abundance. I first tried and tried to give every reason and detail that made India the home of my heart, but now it is just an "I loved it and I can't wait to get back!". The most horrible part of the trip was when my plane left the ground in Chennai. I reviewed my pics and teared-up nearly every hour of my 20 hours of flight time home. Occasionally I go to the local Indian restaurant for a fix, but we all know nothing compares. Thanks, for the piece.

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